Talk:Anti-Zerg Measure
What I/We know
- That IF you have an Alt while using a proxy, the anti-zerg system doesn't work if you use a different IP for each character.
- That even if you don't use a proxy, as long as the alts don't share the same resting space at a system check point (usually at reset) the alts won't be locked out.
- That the using Alts to heal other characters lockout doesn't stop you as long as you don't have an alt (with the same IP) in the same room OR haven't tried to heal the same character with another using the same IP.
- That none of the lockouts that affect hit percentages affect Zombie-Zergs after a small interval between attacks.
Suggestions
Uh...it might not be a great idea to publicise detailed information about zerg countermeasures; the measures are perhaps more effective if the details of how they work is not known to the zergers. Knowledge is power and all that. --Toejam 01:04, 2 September 2008 (BST)
- Those who are intent on cheating will find a way to do it with this information public or not... Its time we bloody did something about it. Conndrakamod TAZM CFT 02:41, 2 September 2008 (BST)
Well, here's how it's done in Nexus War - each person has an account, and that account has tied to it, several characters (3 by default, though you can purchase more through donation up to an unlimited amount). This, combined with EXTENSIVE scripting to detect multi-abuse, means it's nigh on impossible for you to use those characters to zerg. There are limitations of course - if you attack a person with one character it starts a timer which means any further interactions (attacking, healing etc) results in an automatic failure before the end of that timer. The scripts to detect this stuff are really tight, almost infallible, and they extend beyond just attacking and healing. There is no way to stop someone using one character to scout a target and another to then attack them, but that's pretty much unavoidable.
Using two accounts from the same computer results in you getting banned from both accounts and the game in its entirety. Jorm also *personally* investigates such matters occasionally I believe, to track suspicious activities across multiple accounts. There is still however, unfortunately no way to deal with the use of 3rd party proxy servers... I think. That being said, I bet there's some way to detect the use of these things, and completely block them from access to the UD server. Maybe? Anyone? I'm by no means an expert. Ezekiel UK 09:37, 2 September 2008 (BST)
- It's very easy to find out how to cheat, or least work around, UD's algorithms... With or without proxies. Also, there are lists of proxies -- but they might cost $$$ to buy and to keep updated. Somewhere on the Beeehah.com forums there is actually a discussion about getting people together to do something about this, and to approach Kevan with solutions as opposed to just identifying the problem. I believe Murray J spearheaded it. With the idea of how to make it as easy as possible for Kevan to do... But, once Finis disappeared, interest in some quarters sagged. However, there are still people who want to address this. Obviously. --WanYao 09:49, 2 September 2008 (BST)
- It's sad that the absence of Finis sees a lapse in will to do something about this in some quarters. Whatever you need, just let me know and I will do what I can. I'll admit that at present I have no ideas beyond petitioning Kevan though. --Papa Moloch 19:14, 2 September 2008 (BST)
- So what you are saying is if we can draft some codemonkey to come up with something that Kevan could implement easy...hmmmm I don't know anything about Code (obviously) but I wonder if somebody started with some kind of pluggin/app that could then be incorporated onto the server as a stand alone program that ran in the background as opposed to something that was integrally connected with UD? Is that possible? Conndraka mod TAZM CFT 03:09, 3 September 2008 (BST)
- In theory the best anti-zerg measures are like, scripts run across the server to detect suspicious activity. Thing is the worst cheaters are the ones using proxies to bypass the IP limit. I think this is one of the roots of the problem - in Nexus War, you can log in as much as you want, but because you're limited to a specific number of characters on your account there is no need for a 160 hit IP limit. Then it's just a case of ensuring someone isn't using more than one account. The IP limit encourages people to play the game on a proxy, which in turn enables them to use as many characters as they want, which in turn gives them the idea of mass zerging. My only fear is that stronger built in anti zerg measures (the ol 0% to hit lark, or 'you attempt to heal xyz but fail') might not be possible without a rewrite of the core foundation of the game, plus I'm guessing that Kevan has moved onto other things and is only really interested in the odd adjustment to make sure people don't quit the game. Ezekiel UK 13:02, 4 September 2008 (BST)
- If you look at my Talk page, you'll see selections from a thread created on beerhah.com to address the zerging issue, specifically the use of open proxies. The solution is very simply to ban them. And there are lists. I even think a proxy list has been compiled by the wiki's sysops to ban sockpuppets: that would be a start...
- I know some people are going to whine about not being able to play from work, or school, or whatever. Well... Tough... You shouldn'r be logging on from work, if the site is banned, anyhoo, sillies! :P The relatively small number of people this will affect, versus the negative effect zerging has on the game is IMNSHO worth it. --WanYao 15:03, 5 September 2008 (BST)
- In theory the best anti-zerg measures are like, scripts run across the server to detect suspicious activity. Thing is the worst cheaters are the ones using proxies to bypass the IP limit. I think this is one of the roots of the problem - in Nexus War, you can log in as much as you want, but because you're limited to a specific number of characters on your account there is no need for a 160 hit IP limit. Then it's just a case of ensuring someone isn't using more than one account. The IP limit encourages people to play the game on a proxy, which in turn enables them to use as many characters as they want, which in turn gives them the idea of mass zerging. My only fear is that stronger built in anti zerg measures (the ol 0% to hit lark, or 'you attempt to heal xyz but fail') might not be possible without a rewrite of the core foundation of the game, plus I'm guessing that Kevan has moved onto other things and is only really interested in the odd adjustment to make sure people don't quit the game. Ezekiel UK 13:02, 4 September 2008 (BST)
- So what you are saying is if we can draft some codemonkey to come up with something that Kevan could implement easy...hmmmm I don't know anything about Code (obviously) but I wonder if somebody started with some kind of pluggin/app that could then be incorporated onto the server as a stand alone program that ran in the background as opposed to something that was integrally connected with UD? Is that possible? Conndraka mod TAZM CFT 03:09, 3 September 2008 (BST)
- It's sad that the absence of Finis sees a lapse in will to do something about this in some quarters. Whatever you need, just let me know and I will do what I can. I'll admit that at present I have no ideas beyond petitioning Kevan though. --Papa Moloch 19:14, 2 September 2008 (BST)
- It's very easy to find out how to cheat, or least work around, UD's algorithms... With or without proxies. Also, there are lists of proxies -- but they might cost $$$ to buy and to keep updated. Somewhere on the Beeehah.com forums there is actually a discussion about getting people together to do something about this, and to approach Kevan with solutions as opposed to just identifying the problem. I believe Murray J spearheaded it. With the idea of how to make it as easy as possible for Kevan to do... But, once Finis disappeared, interest in some quarters sagged. However, there are still people who want to address this. Obviously. --WanYao 09:49, 2 September 2008 (BST)
- While I agree that the zerging issue is a thorny one, I would like to ask for at least some small consideration for people who enjoy playing together and live in the same house? Some of us are careful to keep from tripping the existing flags and not do anything that would violate the consensual rules, but do wind up in the same building because we like interacting with each other. Under some of the more draconian things proposed above, given that "account" seems to equal ISP, that would kill parts of the game for people like us. --Queen Mum 20:57, 5 September 2008 (BST)
